Discussion in 'Systema' started by Eric M. Miller, Aug 8, 2012.
Well I wouldn't say it's unbeatable...It's like McMap or Krav Maga...just for Russians..
It's certainly badass though. I met a systema practitioner once...We got to exchange pointers and it really interesting. Exchange pointers in the discussion sense, not the sparring sense
russian krav maga is exactly how i view it. and the guy who made the video (featured towards the end. not vladimir though) i know personally and he loves his art and is very proud of it. taught for practiced for 36 years. so give him a break if he says unbeatable.
Not to repeat common knowledge but it's the fighter not the style, to me it seems like people who say there system or style is unbeatable are looking for validity when the art itself and how well you function with it should be what makes you credible. none the less i have no problem with people having pride in their martial art as long as it doesn't become braggadocious in nature.
nice.. some of the moves were similar to our techniques..
I am the guy with the green tee shirt and the black shorts. Systema Miami. Technontactical.com
Systema is one of the few martial arts I would do in a heartbeat, if could.
I like some of the movement drills, and the style of movement in general. A lot of the focus on breathing, relaxation, flow and co-ordination reminds me of taiji, and is probably why Systema is often regarded as a modern day internal MA. Also, I have some Systema DVD's which I thoroughly enjoyed.
But I have to put the cat amongst the pidgins here...
Really, that is some of the deadliest technique training I've ever seen. Deadly, that is, to the defender. Unless I am missing something here (which I may well be, and if I am, please explain it to me).
All those points where he parries a blade with his hand (for example, 2.43 onwards), that's not an actual technique is it? If so, how is that man still alive? I assume he's never held a live blade? Some of the other stuff too, I'm afraid, was absolutely awful.
Am I missing something? Were those techniques presented to you as combat effective? Or were they just training methods and the actual techniques, sparring, etcetera came later on and wasn't shown here?
Sorry if that came off as rude. It's not meant to, I'm just honestly shocked that could be billed as effective martial arts! Perhaps an insider perspective would illuminate me?
I don't know much about systema, I've never sparred with a systema practitioner and to my knowledge I've never even met one. But the techniques in both videos, honestly, didn't impress me that much. They looked to be the types of techniques that look good when training with cooperative training partners, but don't work so well outside of that context. Maybe that is just demonstration type stuff and systema is more like MCMAP than I am giving it credit for based on those videos, but compare those videos with, for example, the "Human Weapon" on MCMAP:
Heck if you just go to youtube and type MCMPA sparring into a the search engine there, you will see plenty of MCMAP in action in more realistic scenarios. Even the MCMAP video you see that are demonstrations of techniques are techniques that sure look a lot more like techniques we all know that work from things like boxing, judo, BJJ, Muay Thai, wrestling, and MMA than fancy fine motor techniques demonstrated in the systema videos I saw.
I type "systema sparring" into a search engine and most of what I pull up on the first page are demonstration videos of techniques or workshops. Maybe youtube is a bad representation of what systema really is, or it has been watered down, but from what little I have seen of it, I am not overly impressed. That isn't to say it might not have some good techniques, but as an entire fighting system, I have some serious doubts.
Guys...I was also kinda of surprised as to how this worked even if it looks kinda of funky...
The closest thing I can say is that like Aikido, which I took for way longer, when you watch it, you think that it is fake or that the Uki is always giving in. In reality, either he falls or the arm breaks, talking about Aikido...
Some of the techniques shown were actually showing how to redirect a blow. The one on 2:43, I would rather do something closer to Krav Maga and Karate and redirect the blow and break his leg at the same time. Lead leg side kick.
The ones where the blade is against the body, the idea is to make your body flat against it and then disarm the attacker.
In Systema, you are relaxed and flow, moving in three dimensions. But I agree, it is different.
No offense taken, and by the way, I love Marine stuff...
If I can find a good video, I will post it.
This is Joe, ex IDF and owner of Technon Tactical. Here he mixes kapap with Systema.
some of the other guys got it dead on. the guy you are looking at is vladimir, who has worked with russian speacial forces for YEARS. trust me he has held a real blade. there are subtle parts you are missing. the best way to understand is to experience it yourself though. no amount of explaining i can do can equal that
Okay, after viewing all the systema videos posted here so far, I am even more skeptical of systema than I was before. No offense
I googled Los Angeles Systema and I found the above....just in case you want to check it out.
I have no dog in this fight, you guys take what you want to take. I wanted to learn about it first hand, so I did.
naw it's fine. i was too, but my dad has experience with the art and demonstrated some of its concepts. it is an unbalancing at, mixed with striking, redirection, and many of the same concepts as ninjitsu. since learning pieces of it, i have come to deeply respect the art.
Fair enough, but for some reason I can only find a handful of videos of Systema actually being trained by way of realistic hard live sparring. On the other hand, I can find plenty of "demonstration" videos and videos of nonsense that sounds a lot like mystical "chi" and "dim mak" powers dressed up in other names and using Russian Orthodox mysticism instead of various Asian mysticism. I have a very strong bias against such arts. I don't put much stock on arts that don't involve hard full contact sparring as a major facet of training. This is one of my problems with Aikido too -- looks great against cooperative ukes, probably has some useful techniques, but I'm not convinced it works anywhere close to the way it is advertised if you go up against someone who actually knows how to fight (and not just some drunk in a bar who grabs your shirt collar).
I actually am reminded now (I had forgotten) that I did train once with a Russian guy who claimed to have trained for a few years in Systema several years ago. We were rolling in BJJ, so perhaps that is outside the bailiwick of Systema, but whatever he learned from Systema certainly didn't translate well to BJJ skills. Perhaps Systema doesn't involve much in the way of ground fighting so that isn't fair. Also, I am sure that Systema does have some useful techniques in it, but it also looks to have a lot of techniques that look pretty dubious to me, and as a complete fighting/self-defense system, it appear to me to be one of those arts that looks good when you demonstrate techniques and talk about it, but that wouldn't fair so well if put to the test of actually having to fight another trained fighter using it.
well ask the russian speacial forces how it fairs against combatants. also i could get you the contact info of the guy who edited, made, and was featured in this video who could give you the explanations you'd like.
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